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Selling With Video without Being Salesy with Chris Bogue

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In this episode of the Engage Video Marketing Podcast, I am  joined by Chris Bogue to discuss the power of video in sales prospecting. Together, we explored how to create engaging and authentic videos that resonate with prospects, without coming across as pushy or salesy. Chris shares valuable insights on injecting personality into videos, as well as unique ways to use video in the prospecting process. If you’re looking to enhance your sales strategies and build genuine connections, this episode is a must-listen.

Chris Bogue coaches people to create mercifully short video content for business. He is the creator of the Complete Guide to Selling on Video, a digital course on video prospecting for sales. He is also a sketch comedy writer and host of Chris Sells His Soul on LinkedIn Live.

If you found this episode of value I’d love for you to reach out and let me know on Instagram @engage_ben or email podcast@engagevideomarketing.com

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Transcript of the Interview: ** Note: the following transcript was generated by AI and therefore may contain some errors and omissions.

Ben (00:01.046)

G’day Chris, welcome to the podcast.

Chris Bogue (00:01.59)

Chris, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

Ben (00:05.142)

I’m excited to dive into this conversation because selling using video is something that I’ve spoken about for quite a number of years here, but I still feel that it’s something that both I personally and I know many of our listeners haven’t really nailed in their own business. So I think that there’s some interesting stuff we can talk about here today. But for those that haven’t come across you before on LinkedIn or elsewhere, Chris, can you tell us a little bit about your story and what got you into what you do in the world of video today?

Chris Bogue (00:15.352)

I know many of our listeners.

Chris Bogue (00:24.362)

that haven’t come across you before on your dinner elsewhere. Chris, can you tell us a little bit about your story?

Chris Bogue (00:34.158)

Yeah, so hello everybody. I’m Chris Bogue. I coach people to make mercifully short video content that drives revenue. Sometimes that is video content for LinkedIn or YouTube or TikTok. But oftentimes that is direct sales videos. I teach people how to make short, impactful videos, usually shorter than one minute, to drive sales.

and uh… i do a lot of comedy now i’d i create a lot of content on my page but everything i’m doing is like a total accident i was really one of those guys who like never thought i would be a sales trainer never thought i would start my own business it was this really like right place right time kind of thing where uh… i’ve been doing sales for a long time uh… my last sales role i was selling education technology to universities so

long complicated sale, lots of decision makers that you have to appeal to. These people are constantly spammed and hounded because their email addresses are public. So every vendor under the sun is calling and emailing them nonstop. It was very difficult. And COVID hit, and all of a sudden, the three best ways I had to reach prospects were no longer available, right? My three best options were call their office,

Ben (01:56.395)


Chris Bogue (01:58.302)

visit them on campus or visit them at an educational conference. COVID happened, nobody’s in their office anymore, all my flights were canceled, all the conferences were canceled, students are no longer on campus. So I had to get on video and I had this whole kind of secret life that I always try to keep separate from my business self. You know, so I was doing sales to pay the bills, but I also dabbled in television. I did a little network television, some work throughout my twenties.

I did some web series and I was a sketch comedian at Chicago’s Second City. So if anybody’s unfamiliar, Second City has been around since the 1950s. That’s where you get people like Tina Fey and Chris Farley and Bill Murray and Bob Odenkirk and Stephen Colbert and all these people who are out there doing comedy now. They learn in Chicago. And it’s this style of humor that’s based in honesty.

You were doing satire and you were doing character work, but you’re trying to play the most honest version of yourself and you’re leaning into a different version of yourself and just kind of exaggerating what’s funny. But I started getting on video because I couldn’t find a better way to reach my professors that I had to talk to. And even the sales reps who were better than me, they could make three or four videos in a week. I would make 25 videos in an afternoon and set five meetings.

And I said, wow, this stuff is powerful. And there’s also not a lot of great scholarship around it. There’s not books and courses and you know, you go get an MBA, they’re not gonna teach you how to make videos. They’re certainly not gonna teach you how to make TikToks. So I’m like, I’m gonna go start teaching this. I’m gonna get very curious. I’m gonna build the process. I’m gonna figure out what works and what doesn’t work. And I’m gonna make the bet that this is gonna be more important as time goes on.

Ben (03:40.93)


Chris Bogue (03:51.118)

This generation that is graduating college and entering the workforce has a very different relationship to video than their bosses. They had YouTube ever since they were little kids. It is more casual to them. It’s not as big of a deal to young people to get on video as it is to, you know, somebody in the executive class. And, yeah, I’ve just kind of thrown myself fully into it for the past four years, and I have no regrets.

Ben (04:17.035)

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think that…

That shift that happened that you mentioned there in your story around COVID leading to that change in the way that you needed to communicate with prospects and people to build your network and do what you needed to do in business is pretty common, obviously, everywhere. But I love that you touched on more than that, because I think so many people talk about COVID as being that thing that led to the shift in the way people are doing business, but it was all heading in that direction anyway. I think if anything, it maybe accelerated that.

So as you say, people are becoming more comfortable with video anyway, just because of the way they’ve grown up with video online. And I think even for the slightly older generation perhaps, you know, like my age and maybe your age and above, like who didn’t grow up in that sort of online space, we’re becoming more comfortable with that, whether that be as a result of the pandemic or otherwise.

Chris Bogue (05:00.054)

It’s not the older generation perhaps, you know, but my age and…

Chris Bogue (05:09.524)

We’re becoming more comfortable with that.

Chris Bogue (05:15.446)

What would you say has changed in the way that sales needs to be done that makes video or selling music video so much more powerful today? I’m leaning towards the idea of people don’t want to talk to sales people. The idea of every sale happening because you set up a sales meeting, it’s kind of not a thing anymore. What do you see in the world of sales? It’s changed. It’s led to…

Ben (05:19.796)

to be done that makes video or selling using video so much more powerful today. I kind of am leaning towards the idea of people don’t want to talk to salespeople. The idea of every sale happening because you’ve set up a sales meeting is kind of not the thing anymore. What do you see in the world of sales that’s changed that’s led to video being so powerful today?

Chris Bogue (05:47.606)

Sales got too good at automation. They can’t help themselves. You tell a salesperson, hey, you can press a button and send out 10,000 messages and some percentage of them are going to set a meeting with you and some percentage of that is going to convert. They’re going to spam the hell out of everybody and that’s just what it was. So

And you see this now too, there’s a lot of talk about automation. Everybody wants to automate everything. Everybody’s going to be a chat GPT millionaire who’s just going to press a button and just going to automate all your communication. It’s going to make you a million dollars. Buyers are sophisticated and buyers are smart. And the more we automate ourselves, the more we have to protect our time. And the easier it is to spot low effort outreach.

And if you’re sending somebody something automated that chat GPT made, there’s not a whole lot of incentive for them to respond to you. And the telephone still works because if you can get someone to pick up the phone, you have a live human being, their voice speaking into your ear, that’s a powerful thing. But you’ve also got a lot that you can’t control in a situation like that, right?

For one, they’re probably not even gonna pick up in the first place. Like, spam blockers, telemarketers, they’re going to increasingly find themselves shut out because the phones are getting better at telling you, hey, this is an unidentified number. And even the best case scenario, the deck is still stacked against you, right Ben? Maybe I’m gonna call somebody up, and maybe they’ve just had the worst day of their life.

Ben (07:32.15)


Chris Bogue (07:38.802)

you know maybe they were just handed a hospital bill or divorce papers or you know maybe they’re not in the mood to listen to me or hey maybe their day is going fine but there’s an incentive for them to not want to tell me the truth right because i’m a salesperson and it’s my goal to find out what their problems are and if they’re honest with me about their problems i might manipulate them into a sale so

It’s this situation where they have every incentive to withhold the truth from you, because they need to defend themselves against you, you know? The video allows you to make your case in a context where they don’t have to defend themselves from you. And they can watch your words, they can listen fully to your message, because even if they don’t fully agree with you, they don’t have to explain themselves to you. And

I think that’s a very powerful thing to be able to put that message out there. If you keep it short, if you keep it about the other person and what they care about, if you make it 45 seconds long, you can get them to watch the whole thing. There’s something about being able to fully watch without having to defend yourself. Most salespeople don’t want to let go of that element of control.

Ben (08:53.326)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Ben (09:01.75)

Yeah, I love that. And I love that what you’re touching on there is it’s video allows you to bring that human element back into sales that I think has been missing thanks to that automation that you talked about. As we move into more of a high tech kind of world, it’s become very low touch. There’s that idea of using technology to bring the high touch back into our high tech world. And I think video is one of the powerful ways to do that.

I think was great was the idea that you’ve got video, there’s two different ways to use video and selling and you can get on a synchronous video call, like set up a meeting and say, let’s jump on Zoom or Teams or whatever and do selling through that. People are probably familiar with that process, but.

Chris Bogue (09:32.251)

I think it was great with the idea.

video, there’s two different ways to use video in cell even. You can get on a synchronous video call like set up a meeting and say let’s do this.

Chris Bogue (09:49.143)

But what you’re talking about…

Ben (09:49.334)

What you’re talking about, the power of using video in sales in this asynchronous way, like sending video messages, gives people the time to not feel like they’re being attacked by a salesperson, but to really absorb the message and consider their position. Is that kind of where you see the power in this?

Chris Bogue (09:53.571)

in this asynchronous way of sending video messages. Which people have time to…

to really absorb the message and consider their position. Is that kind of where you see the power in this? Yeah, you know, any sales boss is going to tell you the same thing. Control what you can control, right? And in a traditional sales context, that means make more dials and send more emails, because most of the people who talk to you are going to be angry that you called. Again, even if…

somebody picks up the phone it is this dance you have to do re you have to say the right things and speak in the right things there’s always this risk that they’re gonna hang up on you and uh… i can’t control if the person i’m calling is having a bad day uh… but i’m video you have one hundred percent control over everything you have control over your words you control of your pace you control over the length of the video you have control over how you’re framed

And there’s a very simple reason, I think, why sales teams haven’t embraced video. It’s because they don’t know how to do it. And if you talk to a sales trainer, if you talk to a sales expert who is a fantastic cold caller, that didn’t happen overnight. They’ve had to make thousands and thousands of cold calls, usually over the course of a few years, a few different roles.

It takes a long time to be able to get good at that. And to the people who say video doesn’t work for sales, I go, okay, well it took you that long to get good at cold calling. And that’s just your voice. Video has a lot of moving parts to it. It is your on-camera presentation, it is your lighting, it is your framing, it is your script. I add subtitles to all my videos because…

Chris Bogue (11:56.99)

Video has become a reading experience as much as it is a watching experience. So your words on screen, your thumbnails, the text around, there’s all these different elements. And so I’m like, why did you think you were gonna master this after five videos? Most sales teams are sending out, each seller’s making fewer than five custom videos per month. I’m like, did you make five cold calls and all of a sudden you were an expert?

Did you go to your boss and say, I made five phone calls and I didn’t hit my quota? The phone must not work? No, they tell you to go make good phone calls, or go make more phone calls, but people just give up because I think if you’re really good at sales and you’ve done it at a high level for a while, it doesn’t feel good to go back to being a beginner.

Ben (12:35.415)


Ben (12:48.727)

Chris, can you explain for the viewers, the listeners here, just to get super clear on when you talk about using video in sales, you mentioned making custom videos.

Can you just describe to us what are these videos? I’m assuming we’re not talking about, well I’m playing devil’s advocate here because I know what we’re talking about, but we’re not talking about sales videos that are mass produced and you’re sending the same video to everyone with a promotional video. We’re talking about another form of video. So can you just, in your understanding of this, what does it look like? What types of videos and what’s the content of these videos?

Chris Bogue (13:28.426)

So the videos I send to get sales meetings are typically 45 seconds long. And it looks just like what you’re seeing right now. It’s me sitting here at my desk with subtitles on the screen. And I make my videos very differently than the way I see sales trainers telling me how to make videos on LinkedIn.

So most LinkedIn video coaches will tell you, okay, the first thing you gotta do is you gotta change your background. So it’s the background of the website of the company that you’re selling into. And then you gotta tell them all about how much money you’re gonna save them and you’ve gotta tell them all about this wonderful product that’s gonna change their lives. And to me, the success that I have found and the success that my clients have found is it is a 45 second video about the buyer.

You know, you can do your homework, you can find out things about these companies you’re going for. And granted, good marketing helps, right? So for my business, I am teaching people to get on video. I am putting content out there that’s educational, I’m putting entertaining content out there. I am making sure I’m connecting with my ideal customer profile. So when I’m reaching out, they usually already have an idea who I am. They’ve usually been engaging with my content, and I’ve got a couple clues about what.

they’re going through that would make us a fit. And I’m pitching to the right person, right? I’m actually pitching the person who is the power to meet with me and make decisions. But you know, when I’m coaching people, I tell them it’s like you have to start with a shared frame of reference, right? I don’t start by talking about how I’m gonna 10X their income, or how I’m gonna save them 10 hours of effort a week.

Because even if that’s true, they have no reason to believe me. Right? When you don’t know somebody, when you don’t trust somebody, and they’re throwing these big numbers at you, there’s just no reason to believe it. So I start by talking about what’s important to them. And I always tell them, I’m like, hey, maybe you just see me on the video. But this is a 45-second video about the buyer, about the prospect.

Ben (15:21.048)


Chris Bogue (15:46.59)

They are the main character. I am talking to that camera, like they’re sitting across the table from me and I am the supporting character. And the first thing I do is I start with something they care about. And oftentimes that’s their goals or their values, right? And you can find that on a company mission statement. You can find that on social media. It’s not hard to find what a company cares about. And remember, why does marketing exist?

companies pay a lot of money for marketing because they want to be perceived a certain way. They want to be perceived for something in particular. So I start with that. I say, hey, Ben, I’m reaching out to you because I noticed you really care about video marketing. I know storytelling is important to you. These are words I’m pulling right out of your mouth.

Ben (16:40.706)


Chris Bogue (16:41.206)

And maybe you don’t think I’m gonna 10X your income, but you see that and you go, okay, well, he’s got that right. He clearly knows that video storytelling is important to me. And again, it’s the difference between saying, hey, I’m gonna make you an extra $100,000 a month versus, hey, I see how important diversity is to your company. I see you’re trying to change the way that people educate themselves. So I’m starting with what’s real to them, I’m starting what’s important to them, I’m talking about their goals, their values, what they wanna accomplish.

Ben (16:47.342)


Chris Bogue (17:12.811)

And then I’m probably going to mention something about an elephant in the room problem that they might be facing. So in my case, I can use something like LinkedIn Sales Navigator and I can see if a company has recently adopted a video program for sales. I’m an advisor for a company called Senspark. They have a number of competitors. There’s a lot of different popular video programs that people use to integrate video into Gmail and LinkedIn.

Ben (17:19.66)


Chris Bogue (17:38.918)

And so if I see that, or if I see their sales reps are talking about that, I can mention that and say, hey, I know you’re trying to be the leader here. I know these are your goals. I know here’s what you’re working for. And I also saw you recently adopted this program. And the reason why I’m reaching out to you is because oftentimes, you know, you don’t have a process to start with. It’s hard to know how to get everybody doing this. It’s hard to help everybody feel comfortable. And that’s why I think it makes sense for us to chat. You know, I train.

teams to do this. I train sales reps to go out there and have fun and make videos that are short and confident and then reflect well on your company. So let me know if you’re open to a chat about that. You know, just respond to this with anything if you’d be willing to discuss this further. You’d send a thumbs up if you want me to send a couple of available times. And thanks for watching. And that’s it. I started with them, you know, built a little bit of curiosity for why it might be good for us to have a talk and then I make it very easy.

Ben (18:27.714)


Chris Bogue (18:37.034)

for them to respond to me. And I don’t have to send that many of them to fill my week with calendar meetings with people who could potentially hire me.

Ben (18:49.07)

So take me back to the initial kind of research stage where you’re identifying and I guess perhaps in some way qualifying prospects as being a good fit for what it is that you’re selling. And you can use obviously your example for your sales training. How do you balance that idea between what you…

perceive as being the problem that they have versus it coming across as a bit presumptive. Do you know what I mean? Like kind of saying things like, you know, I see that you’re doing this or I, you know, believe that you have a problem with this. How do you kind of balance that? That’s kind of something that interests me about like, do you know what I’m saying? Like

Chris Bogue (19:19.262)

saying things like, you know, I see that you’re doing this or…

Chris Bogue (19:29.078)

That’s something that’s interesting to me about life. Do you know what I’m saying? Yeah, well, first off, I don’t assume. You know, I’m very confident about their goals and their values because, again, I’m taking those words right out of their mouth. But I kind of come in with this air of, like, you know what? You might be experiencing this, but I don’t know. You know, and if this is something, I’d love to talk with you about it. And here’s the example I’ll give. So one of the things I did badly when I first started doing this.

Ben (19:37.047)


Chris Bogue (19:58.498)

I got some bad advice on LinkedIn where they’re like, oh, you know what? Switch your background so it is your prospect’s website and show them the problems they’re having on their website. And I did that. And I got some feedback from prospects who are like, dude, this is creepy.

And I thought about it and now that I’m now that I run my own business I see it all the time Anytime I get a video from somebody and they’re in a little tiny bubble in the corner of the screen and it’s my website In the background. I’m like, uh-oh He’s gonna tell me my website sucks, you know And I never want to watch a video like that and I think people need to stop and think of the psychology here So I’m gonna pose to your audience. I want you to think of two videos, right?

Ben (20:36.439)


Chris Bogue (20:49.234)

Again, I’m a guy who runs my own business. Imagine I get two videos in my inbox. One of them is somebody, their background is a picture of me, and he goes, hey Chris, you don’t know who I am, but I found this picture of you shirtless at the beach, and I’ve circled the areas of your body with excess fat. And I’m reaching out to you because my solution for weight loss helps founders lose

up to 450 pounds. So if you’re interested in losing weight, go ahead and respond to this and we’ll set some time on the calendar to chat. So that’s video number one. Video number two is somebody saying, hey Chris, you don’t know me yet, but I’m reaching out to you because I see you create a lot of video content and I understand that your image is an important part of your brand. And I wanted to ask you a question. Do you work with a personal trainer?

Ben (21:27.48)


Chris Bogue (21:48.21)

I asked this because I’m a business owner. I’ve found that it can be very hard sometimes to keep up and keep yourself motivated. And I’d love to have a conversation with you because what I do is I help founders prepare meal plans and exercise routines that fit in with what they like to do. And I’d love to share with you how my coaching works. So let me know if you’re open to a conversation about that. Which of those two videos do you think I’m gonna respond to?

The guy rubbing my flaws in my face and pointing and going, look, look at how broken you are. Or the person who’s like, hey, I notice this is important to you. I see the work that you’re putting in there. And I wanted to see if maybe you were interested in taking a step in this other direction. Again, he’s not saying, hey, obviously, I can see you need to lose weight. So come. You’re like, you know.

Ben (22:15.697)


Chris Bogue (22:42.406)

Again, it’s like I use the 450 pounds example because like people are like, you know, I’ll help you make like 300,000 extra dollars a month. And I’m like, what? Who do you think I am? You know? But again, when you start with that shared frame of reference, when you start with, hey, I see video content is an important part of what you do. I see you put effort into this. That’s why I think it might make sense for us to chat.

you know even if the person doesn’t want to chat with me usually they’ll just say hey thanks but no thanks you know uh… it’s not like in my cold calling days when they get angry and hostile with me you know that just doesn’t happen to me anymore

Ben (23:15.011)


Ben (23:25.334)

Yeah, I love that analogy and, well not that analogy, that example, because I’ve heard that same advice, you know, of like, you know, offer, you know, some kind of critique and position your expertise and use, you know, your initial outreach video as a way to stand out from the crowd like that. But I love the frame that you provided there because to me it’s kind of like walking into a doctor’s office and the doctor just looks at you without

Chris Bogue (23:54.874)

says this is what

Ben (23:55.348)

what your problem is. I’ve identified your problems and this is why you need my doctor services. Doctor services, I don’t know what that means. Right, exactly.

Chris Bogue (24:02.846)

or he just calls you, you didn’t even come into his office. You’re like, who is this? I know, I don’t smoke. Like, what is this? You know?

Ben (24:08.85)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But instead, if you’re offering the opportunity to, you know, maybe because I see that you’re in this situation, I’ve seen other people in this situation who have these kinds of problems, does this fit with you? Does this resonate with you? And if so, you know, let’s have more of a chat about that. You know, it’s much more about genuinely seeking to help someone rather than seeking to fit your solution onto the perception of their problems.

reframe to how to approach this.

Chris Bogue (24:42.35)

Yeah, and we can also get into the fact that the top of the sales funnel is very important. Anyone who does sales or runs a business know you always want to be adding people into your sales pipeline because there’s a lot of failure is necessary in order to succeed. So people can focus too much on the top of the pipeline whereas video is great for the entire sales process.

And I have found all these wonderful little moments throughout the sales process that can accelerate deals and that can help you educate and stay in contact with your buyers. And these are just not the things I see sales coaches on LinkedIn talking about. So one of them that I think is an easy thing that everybody should start doing is the meeting recap. So if you’re doing sales, if you’re selling into B2B organizations,

Buying is a group experience now. You are not just selling to one person, you are selling to multiple people. One of the biggest pieces of advice I got when I was first learning to do sales was they’re like, hey, you have to make it an interactive experience because it doesn’t matter if you give the greatest demo in the history of demos. The second that meeting is over, your champion has to sell you to the rest of the organization.

Ben (25:44.781)


Chris Bogue (26:08.426)

And if they don’t have their own reasons for doing it, that sale is going to die while you’re not in the room. And you might not even ever find out why. So one of the things I do is, let’s say I have a good meeting. Let’s say I’m convincing a company to bring me in as a sales trainer. I have my conversation with my first person. It goes very well. Now I’m trying to sell into the broader organization. Now I’m going to need some buy-in.

from the other decision makers there. The first thing I do is if you’re in sales, you always wanna have a next step on the calendar, right? You always wanna set that next meeting. You always wanna know the next time you’re gonna be talking. And you gotta figure out who are the other people involved in this process. So, you know, I’m selling Ben, you know, we’re talking, it’s going well, finishing up. Now I’m asking you about budget and I’m like, hey, who else is gonna need to be involved in this decision?

Who would feel left out if we didn’t include them in the talks? You know, who typically approves this kind of thing? And then they’ll tell me. They’re like, oh, it’s Susan.

you know, over there. She’s the one who like ultimately makes the final call on this. The first thing I ask is, I go, okay, what do you think Susan’s gonna say? Is there any reason why you think Susan wouldn’t want to move forward with something like this? I’m gonna ask this to my champion and the meeting went well so I’ve gained some goodwill where I can ask them some questions and hopefully they’re gonna be honest with me, right? I’m gonna ask them about what are they working on, why wouldn’t they want to do this, and then I’m gonna start asking about, okay, do you and Susan typically meet?

Every week, do you have a recurring meeting? Do you have a one-on-one or a team meeting? When’s the next time you two are gonna meet? Okay, you meet every Wednesday. Well, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we chat again on Friday? And why don’t I just make Susan a short video just kind of summarizing what you and I talked about today? And would you be willing to send that on to Susan for me? And usually they say yes. So as soon as the call is done, while the information is all still fresh in my head, I pop on the camera and I go, hey, Ben.

Chris Bogue (28:11.85)

Really glad I chatted with you today. I’m hopefully looking forward to meeting Susan soon. Here’s the three areas of alignment that really stuck out with me. You mentioned that right now this was a priority for you. You mentioned that you’ve got this thing coming up that you’re working on. And you also mentioned that right now the team doesn’t really have a solid process. And these are the areas where I see the most alignment with us.

Ben (28:22.114)


Chris Bogue (28:36.67)

I really think I could get you there fast, you know, whatever it is, but I’m tailoring it to what we talked about. I’m memorializing those three key points that the other decision maker is going to care about and if I get my champion to email it to them or share it in Slack or some sort of internal channel, there is a much higher likelihood that they’re actually going to watch it. And if you use some of these tools, you can actually see if they watched it. You know, if I send a video and I see it got 11 watches.

That means they forwarded out and I just had all the decision makers watch it, you know? So now on Friday, it’s, you know, when we actually meet, now it’s like, hey, how did they react to the video? How did that go? I’ve built additional context around it and I’ve made sure that the message that gets in front of the other decision makers is, you know, the three easiest things, the things where I bring the most value based on what they said, because again,

video is the only form of sales outreach where you have 100% control over that.

Ben (29:39.622)

Yeah, I love that. That meeting recap, I think, is a really good addition to the process here. Can you maybe walk us through, Chris, what’s your typical sales process using video there? Your first contact would be that cold outreach video. Talk us through the steps.

Chris Bogue (29:58.246)

Not quite. Yeah, usually I recommend a softer first touch point. So for me, it’s like I put a lot of content out, I do a lot of live events. I can usually collect some buying signals before I send that video. I’ve got a live stream that happens every two weeks.

Ben (30:05.611)


Chris Bogue (30:22.426)

I’m inviting people, I’m talking about topics that are important to my buyers, I’m inviting potential buyers to the show. I go through the guest list and if they’ve already clicked attending on the guest list, that is a solid signal there. In sales, this can mean lower effort communications like emails or direct messages on LinkedIn,

Chris Bogue (30:52.842)

There are different ways you can get into conversation with people that don’t require them to take a meeting with you and don’t require to sit through a video. What I recommend to sellers is your list is very important of people who you’re reaching out to. I classify my leads as either green, yellow, or red.

Green means they have a greater than 50% chance of moving to the next step with me. Often these are people who’ve already expressed interest in paying me, you know, when I reach out to somebody, or if somebody reaches out to me and they inbound with me and they’re like, hey, I’ve been looking for a coach. My team recently started getting on video and we’ve been looking to kind of like up our level of output, let’s chat about this. That person is a green lead because they are, they have a greater than 50% chance of moving forward.

Right, so if somebody’s green, send them a video right away. The only question is why are they not closed yet? Get them through the pipeline. A yellow lead is a coin flip. They fit my ideal customer profile, but I have not collected any buying signals from them. Right, so they would be good. We haven’t really had any sort of meaningful conversation. But maybe, you know, so yellow leads.

Then get a video too. I send them, you know, I am always testing my message. How does this do on someone that fits my ideal customer profile, but it’s just not giving me a signal one way or another? Red leads, as you can imagine, is a less than 50% chance, right? These are people who’ve told you no. These are people who are ignoring your phone calls, ignoring your email messages, ignoring your DMs. Maybe they set a meeting with you a year ago and they ghosted on you and they’re just not talking to you.

it’s a less than 50% chance that they’re going to take the next step with you. So I don’t make custom videos for them. I send, you know, maybe emails or DMS or, you know, invitations to live events, webinars, things like that. But I’m not going to waste my time making a custom video for them because I don’t have a, they’re not likely to respond to it or watch it. Right. And I’m telling you about this green, yellow and red system because

Ben (33:09.826)


Chris Bogue (33:16.382)

This is the exact, what I do is the exact opposite of what B2B selling teams are doing right now. They are sending videos to the red leads. They’ve been calling and emailing and hounding these people. They’re banging their heads against the wall. They’ve done everything they can. They can’t get this person to notice them. So then they turn on the camera and they make their background the website. And it’s six minutes long. And they’re promising all these things.

Ben (33:37.079)


Chris Bogue (33:44.674)

and then it fails and they’re like, huh, video must not work. And I’m like, of course it doesn’t work when you send it to the person who is least likely to talk to you. But if you sent them to the people who are most likely to talk to you, you’re more likely to get the meeting and you’re more likely to accelerate the velocity of that deal through your pipeline.

Ben (33:47.08)


Ben (33:53.388)


Ben (34:04.478)

Yeah. So are you primarily using LinkedIn Sales Navigator, for example, as your CRM for this process or for non-B2B or people who aren’t really finding their prospects on LinkedIn? Is there other kind of processes you would recommend to categorise, sort your leads and reach out to them?

Chris Bogue (34:30.198)

Yeah, so you know, you need a workflow. I feel like five is a good number. I tell people if you’re going to sit down and make a video, make five. And it helps if all five of them are similar somehow. So maybe it’s five people who all have the same job title. Maybe they’re all in the same industry. Maybe they’re all suffering from the same potential problem.

If I’m reaching out to five similar people, that message is probably gonna be the same. You know, it’s probably gonna be very similar. I’m gonna plug in one or two specific things about them, but it’s not a wildly different script every time. You know? And yeah, if I send out five videos, I say you should be gunning for bare minimum, you know, one in five.

Ben (35:17.111)


Chris Bogue (35:26.758)

response rate, right? 20%. That’s not unreasonable. If you can’t do five, start with three. But five videos a day, again, most sellers out there are doing fewer than five per month. If you do five per day, that’s 25 a week. That’s minimum 100 a month. That’s substantially more custom videos than anyone is making.

A modern seller, I believe, should be able to make and shoot five to ten videos in an hour or two. And that’s kind of the whole gist of my course. I have a complete guide to selling online, and that’s like, hey, if you’ve never done this, even if you just have a phone and no sales experience, by the end of the course, you should be able to just sit down and do five. You know, and again, that’s scripting them similarly. I teach people to write in bullet points, which really helps me.

Ben (36:10.028)


Chris Bogue (36:21.534)

You know, all my stuff, even my scripted comedy and my sketch comedy is written in bullet points. I find the bullet points help because they keep you on message while allowing you to be flexible and conversational. But yeah, you know, if you’re using a CRM, if you’re using Salesforce or HubSpot or something like that, you’ve probably got some way to designate who are the high value leads, who are the VIPs. Your VIPs should get a video

you know, and if you’re just sending video out all the time, it’s not a huge deal, you know? People fool themselves and they think, oh, this is the giant VIP account that can get me 50% of the way to quota, so I’ve gotta make the craziest, you know, biggest, most interesting video of all time. But all my videos, you know, and like we could talk, if you wanna talk about video content, we can, because I make some pretty crazy video content.

I do characters and I’ve got music and interactive stunts and all sorts of weird stuff. My sales videos are all super straightforward. I’m not doing comedy. I’m not doing crazy effects. It is me talking directly to another human being for 45 seconds and then I follow up.

Ben (37:31.49)


Ben (37:37.662)

Yeah. Okay. So I was interested to ask, because anyone, if you follow Chris as well, you’ll see a lot of that more marketing or inbound content as well across LinkedIn. And there is a lot of humour in there. So what role do you think humour plays in, or let’s just say personality, right? Rather than humour directly, maybe you do integrate humour, but in these kind of direct outreach sales videos…

Is it important to get some, like to be a bit of, have a bit of personality, to maybe make a joke? What’s your balance there?

Chris Bogue (38:14.774)

How does your balance fit? Yeah, I mean, my whole thing is like, look, I’m an improviser, right? So I was trained at Chicago’s Second City. The difference between improv and theater is you go to New York City, you go to a Broadway show, the performers are up here and the audience is down here. The performers are up on the stage. They exist in a different world.

audience does there you’re not allowed on the stage you’re not allowed to interact with them you clap when you’re supposed to clap and Then you go home when it’s done in Improv you are on an even playing field Right the audience is the show They are right up there You’re getting suggestions from them Sometimes you’re pulling them up on a stage and incorporating them into the action and I think about Video the same way for business, right?

It’s not a lecture, it is a conversation. And again, that’s why I say, like, I literally imagine them sitting across from me and I just talk to them straight. And…

You know, I’m not better than them, I’m not smarter than them, you know, maybe I could potentially help them. But yeah, sellers can go too much in one direction or the other, you know, so if you’re putting yourself up here and you’re putting your audience below you, that’s the seller we talked about before, where it’s like, hey, here’s your website, here’s what you’re doing wrong, I’ve got the solution, you’ve got to hire me. But I tell people to be careful with the performing on the sales video.

Because you can do the opposite thing, where you come in as a very low status character who’s acting like your buyer is better than you, who doesn’t have the time to speak to you. You know, there’s a gimmick that everybody on video does where they got the whiteboard and they’re like, hey Ben, look at my whiteboard, just give me 17 seconds. And you kind of have to act like you belong there. You know?

Ben (40:12.516)


Chris Bogue (40:21.714)

But if you are a little bit more curious about them, a little bit more interested in them, a little bit nicer and more approachable than everybody else in their inbox, you can completely get their attention. And it’s this tricky thing where it’s like, I’m a sketch comedy writer and I teach improv workshops, but the first thing I do at an improv workshop is I go, I do an exercise, I go, okay, everybody, let’s take a deep breath in.

And now let’s breathe out the need to be funny. Because the version of you that’s trying to get the laugh is actually the least funny version of you. And you know, most people will tell you, they’re like, oh, I’m not funny, but I’m funny around my friends and family. And I’m like, yeah, that’s the version of you that’s funniest because that’s the version of you that’s real, you know? And I was a sketch comedian, so my, you know, I’ve got crazy characters in sketch comedy in my content.

Ben (40:51.383)


Chris Bogue (41:19.078)

If I’m working with somebody who is a good teacher, I say, okay, well, we’re gonna get you on camera teaching then. You know, if you’re a very thoughtful person, then let’s get you on camera being thoughtful. And you know, we all have these little character roles that we step into throughout the day. And so like, I was working once, she was a corporate executive, and you know, I was looking at her, and I was like, okay, well, this version of you, she’s in a fancy office, and she had a blazer on.

And I’m like, okay, this is a business woman. This is a woman who built a business. This is a woman who’s been successful. You know, when you make video content, you can speak as the boss because that’s who you are. You have people who answer to you. You’ve made decisions. You’ve done things that other people have not done. But maybe you don’t wanna be that all the time. You know, maybe you wanna sit down at your kitchen table and now maybe you’re the mom. You know, you’re a woman who has a family.

you know, or maybe you’re out in your backyard, maybe now you’re just Lisa, the gal that was happy-go-lucky, you know, who was good at sports, that people liked to be around growing up, you know, it was like, I was on this call once recently, and it was so funny because it started, like right before it started, this woman was talking to me, and she’s a very good speaker.

But she was not comfortable in sales, and she’s not comfortable doing comedy, and she was talking to me, and she was just like, she’s like, okay, we’re getting ready for the show, this and that, and she’s like, Tyler, put your pants back on, Mommy’s doing a show right now. I’m so sorry, that’s my son. And then she starts the show, and she’s like, well, I’m not funny, I’m like, five minutes ago, you were funny. You snapped out of who you were, and you suddenly turned into the mom, you know? And you snapped right back into the business woman, and that’s real.

Ben (42:50.734)


Ben (42:59.792)


Chris Bogue (43:11.762)

You know, you weren’t trying to impress me, that’s just who you are. You know, and it’s like… And you know, we could do a whole episode on comedy theory, but oftentimes it’s the… It’s just telling the truth, and it’s being true to the specific details. You know, and if you’re a mom, and you’re up there, and you’re like, Oh yeah, you know, peanut butter jelly, no crust! People laugh, because all the moms in the audience are like, Oh yeah, my kid’s finicky about the crust, too.

Ben (43:34.562)


Chris Bogue (43:41.67)

You know, and again, it’s these little real moments that people laugh at. And so often the formula for comedy is a comedian up there on stage. You know, I believe that comedy exists in the gap between how we’re supposed to act and how we actually act. And so often a comedian is up there saying, you know,

I was in this situation recently and I know I was supposed to do this, but I actually did this other thing. And the audience laughs because they’re like, oh yeah, that’s what I do too. And yeah, it’s this tricky thing where you, you know, once you’re comfortable enough to say the truth, even if it’s not what you think the audience might find the most entertaining, that’s where the real comedy comes from. You know?

Ben (44:32.766)

Yeah. I think it’s like.

Yeah, I think what really what we’re getting at here as far as the approach when it comes to using video in sales is it’s not about trying to be funny. It’s not about trying to get inject personality into it in a forced way, but just to allow your content that you’re creating to be yourself, like be yourself. And, you know, people buy from people, people connect with people. So I think it’s about trying to drop that mask that we wear in so many differences.

situations and when you are creating a video to someone that you kind of don’t know, which is effectively what we’re doing here, you don’t want to try and be someone you’re not. You don’t want to try and put on this salesperson hat or mask. You just need to be yourself. And I think people resonate better when it seems like this is the person, this is who you are.

Chris Bogue (45:22.829)

You just need to be yourself.

Chris Bogue (45:29.182)

like, this is the person, this is who you are. Yeah, and comedy is a form of empathy, right? So I am trained in a form of comedy. I’m trained in this satirical style, but even when I’m parodying LinkedIn, it’s never to make anybody feel bad. It’s to show them that I understand this world that they’re part of. And I remember when I was a sales rep,

when I was just discovering video, you know, it was an insane process where you’re making a hundred dials a day and you’re just grinding through. You know, these people already rejected you three months ago and here you are pitching them again. And so I would use a little bit more of humor in there, but I would say something. I would pop on the camera and I’d go, uh, hey Dr. Davis, it’s me, the guy that sent you ten emails last year. In hindsight, that may have been a bit excessive.

But here’s why I did that. I see you wrote the book on critical thinking. I know this is an important part of your curriculum. I wanted to see if you have any assignments right now that practice your students critical thinking. Because I’ve been working on something with the professors down in the biology department that I think actually might benefit your marketing class. So if you’d be open to chatting with me, just respond with anything.

And again, I used a little bit of humor as that icebreaker, but what did I do? I pivoted immediately to the thing that they care about. And where did I find that from? Directly on his faculty profile page.

Ben (46:58.188)


Ben (47:03.193)


I think that’s the key thing, is finding that thing that matters to the person that you’re reaching out and approaching it from that. Just in closing here, Chris, I just want to get practical understanding of how you approach this. I’ll ask you a few rapid fire questions if that’s okay, just so that we leave our audience here with the practical next steps to really execute what it is that you’ve been talking about. When you’ve got your prospects list, you know who it is that you’re reaching out to.

out to, you’ve done a bit of research into how you’re going to find that thing that they care about that matters to them, that aligns with what you want to reach out to them about. You press record on your camera, on your webcam or whatever you’ve got set up, your iPhone. What tool are we using to record? Are you using a platform or are you recording this just straight into your camera roll?

Chris Bogue (47:48.118)

Press record.

Chris Bogue (47:55.479)

tool that we’re using to record? Are you using a platform or are you recording this just straight into your camera roll? I’m using an HD webcam. And personally, I’m an Adobe user. So it’s like all my projects are very organized. Like in my course, I actually show a couple different ways that you can use for your workflow, for your editing. So if you’re already a video editor, I say keep it in house and use what you’re using.

Many of my clients use Descript. So Descript is a powerful editing program. It’s text-based editing. And I do what’s called batch filming, right? So I let the camera run, and I’m not starting and stopping the camera. I am recording all five or 10 videos all on one video, because Adobe and Descript, this is called non-destructive editing, which means…

You can chop up that video file, you can add text, you can export it without altering the original file. So again, I’m sitting down, I’ve got the camera rolling, I’m gonna do five, or I’m gonna do 10, back to back to back. I chop them up in my editing program. And then, yeah, next step, depending on whether or not you wanna invest in a sales tool, my next step is uploading them to SendSpark, which is the program that I use to track my analytics. And then I send them through LinkedIn or Gmail.

LinkedIn, you don’t even, I mean, you can just do, you can send a video direct through LinkedIn if you want.

Ben (49:24.01)

Yeah, just using the video tool and the direct messages, yeah?

Chris Bogue (49:30.074)

Yeah, so oftentimes I will just send the video with no text. Like they can look at it and they can see I have subtitles burned into that video. So they see the first line is gonna be, hey Ben, I’m reaching out because. From there I have a couple next steps that I might be able to do. Maybe if I don’t hear from them in a couple days, I’ll send another message being like, hey Ben, just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on that. Sometimes I’ll leave a voice note. Text message. Yeah, or an.

Ben (49:52.578)

So that would be a text message or a voice note. Yeah, you wouldn’t send a follow-up video.

Chris Bogue (49:58.938)

or a follow-up email. I don’t send a follow-up video. If I’ve sent a video, now my goal is to get them to watch the video. All my subsequent follow-ups are gonna be with the goal of getting them to watch that video. So maybe that’s a one-sentence email, maybe that’s a DM, maybe that’s a voice note. One trick that I found that works really well too, because again, I subtitle my stuff, all my stuff is accessible.

It’s because I come from the educational world and it was very important that everybody can read your message and it makes it just easier. You know, again, you think of like a corporate executive who’s in an Uber or a taxi cab somewhere. Maybe they can’t watch your message because they don’t wanna take out their headphones. But if there’s subtitles burned into it, they can still get the message, right? So because I do that, I have access to my transcripts. And oftentimes what I do is if they don’t respond to the video, I take a screenshot of the transcript.

And two or three days later, I send it to them and say, hey, Ben, just realized it might not be convenient for you to watch a video. So here’s the transcript. Let me know if you’re open to chatting about this.

Ben (51:02.654)

Okay, just a screenshot of the transcript. Interesting.

Chris Bogue (51:07.014)

screenshot of the transcript. And then oftentimes they actually read it and then they go watch the video. But yeah, after that it’s basically a normal sales strategy where you’re just following up. And again, I might even call them, right? If I have their phone number, it’s so much easier to call and be like, hey, Ben, you got a minute? I’m the guy that sent you the video as opposed to, oh, Ben, you don’t know me. I have 17 seconds, I promise. You know, it’s like.

Ben (51:09.644)


Chris Bogue (51:34.794)

uh… it’s much you’ve created a piece of context that humanize issue at the start of it so you’re probably that cold calls could be a lot warmer now uh… bia you follow up to you make contact not everybody’s gonna be into it but i do it because it works you know and there’s also one thing that we didn’t mention earlier but this is the easiest way to use video that i found so

Ben (51:43.446)


Ben (51:52.491)


Chris Bogue (52:03.574)

You know, if you’re running your own company, you know the worst thing on earth is when you set a meeting with somebody and they cancel on you last minute. They ghost out, they’re like, hey, something came up and they move it around. I have found the most effective way to get someone to show up to a meeting. Maybe you didn’t even set that meeting with video. Maybe you called them, maybe you emailed them, maybe they inbounded. Two or three days before the video, I send them a, before the meeting, I send them a 15 second video.

Just saying, hey, Ben, really looking forward to meeting with you on Wednesday. Here’s one thing I would like you to think about and I’ll see you at 12 p.m. That’s it, 15 seconds. They’re so used to getting an automated Calendly reminder that when they actually see a human being expecting them to be there, they’re much more likely to just take the meeting and not move it around on you. And anyone can do that. We’ve all got an HD camera in our pocket.

Ben (52:41.59)

Yeah, yeah, I love it.

Ben (52:56.662)


Chris Bogue (53:01.63)

You can pop on for 15 seconds and say, see you soon. You don’t need to say, you know, wonderful speech or whatever. Just let them know you’re looking forward to seeing them. And trust me, your show rates are gonna improve.

Ben (53:13.386)

100%. Chris, I love it. I know you go a lot deeper into this in your course, The Complete Guide to Selling on video. Obviously, people can follow you and learn a bunch more about this stuff as well. Maybe you have a few laughs at some of Chris’s content as well. Where’s the best place for people to, number one, get access to that program if they want to go deeper into this, and number two, to connect with you?

Chris Bogue (53:31.606)

this place.

Chris Bogue (53:39.446)

Yeah, so you can buy the complete guide at chrisbogue.io. That’s the easiest place to find it. You can also follow me on LinkedIn. Go ahead and ring my bell. I’m a content creator. You can also just connect with me. I know some people like to follow, but send me a connection request. I’m obsessed with video. I love talking about all things video. Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. I’m posting new content every day. And I also have a live stream that I turn into a podcast.

Ben (53:48.597)


Chris Bogue (54:08.79)

Chris sells his soul. It is conversations about monetizing creativity. So, if you’re a creative person, if you wanna monetize your skills, if you wanna use your video skills and your performance skills to succeed in business, it’s conversations with sales and marketing professionals, video professionals, and also sometimes comedians and performers, you know, so.

You can check that out on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get podcasts. Chris sells his soul. Or again, if you want to get the complete guide to selling on video, chrisbogue.io is where you can find it.

Ben (54:43.55)

I love it Chris. We’ll have all the links to what Chris mentioned in the show notes for this episode, so stick around and I’ll let you know where you can get that. I also love that you’ve got a bell apparently just off screen there, as everyone tends to do. You dinged your bell.

Chris Bogue (54:59.746)

Oh wait. Oh, oh yeah. I was like, I thought you said Bill. I’m like, oh no, did I leave personal documents in the shot again?

Ben (55:04.862)

No, a bell, that’s my Aussie accent. Heh heh. I love it.

Chris Bogue (55:08.818)

There we go. I’ve got a very thick Chicago accent, so.

Ben (55:13.15)

I love it. Everyone needs a little bell on their desk that they can ring when they mention their LinkedIn profile. Yeah. Chris Bogue, thanks for joining me on the show. It’s been really interesting and definitely fired up me to do more video selling in a better way than I have been, to be honest. You’ve called me out on a few things. So thanks very much for the insight today.

Chris Bogue (55:20.617)

It comes in handy.

Chris Bogue (55:35.466)

Thanks for having me.

Ben (55:36.506)

Awesome. Thanks Chris.

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